Bricks and Unity

26 Responses to “Bricks and Unity”

1. Dan H. on September 7th, 2010 6:28 am

   Del,

   Thanks for the great analogies and lessons. Having built my own home, I can empathize with your home improvement travails to the extreme! This is a great thing that you are doing for the future residents of this “sanctuary for the soul!”

   Today my daughter is entering her Senior year in high school; and she is so captured by this world and its priorities. This in spite of the best efforts of her faulty and sinful father (me). Please pray for her and the other young people that are so miss-lead these days…

   Your unity in the Body of Christ and the lone brick weakness analogy is a great one Del! It is so true how we must find our strength in the truth of scripture and in the corporate sharing of these truths, and be bound together by that same truth. Just as the mortar (truth) binds the bricks (believers) into a structure that gains its great strength from each other; this might be another way of expressing your analogy.

   Thanks for sharing this with us Del… Please keep us up to date on this very worthwhile project!

   In Christ,

   Dan…

   [Dan, I understand your concern for your daughter. She has grown up in a culture that bombards her constantly with "it is all about you". We are all imperfect parents, but our children, in the end, make their own decisions, as they should. Stay on your knees! Thanks for reading. dt]

2. Shannon on September 7th, 2010 7:11 am

   Thank you for being an example of having a vision and acting on it. Even when it becomes hard, painful and inconvenient. Thank you for using every day living to remind me of God’s plan, His way and His truth. Thank you for sharing yourself, your daily struggles with us. God bless you.

   [Shannon, my pleasure, but we are all walking this road together. I'll remind you today and you'll remind me tomorrow. dt]

3. SA on September 7th, 2010 7:14 am

   Your comments about removing one brick, and how it affects the integrity of the whole wall, made me think of a popular pastor who proclaims many false teachings, including the idea that faith should be more like a trampoline, not a brick wall.

   He compares the faith of those who hold fixed beliefs [doctrines] to a brick wall. He says the bricks are a definite shape and size and cannot bend and that our faith should be more like a trampoline. He then goes on to state that once one of the wall bricks is compromised the whole wall can come crumbling down. Well, duh, that’s totally true…. and your experience illustrates it.

   It says to me that we shouldn’t mess with core Christian doctrines, like substitutionary atonement, inerrancy of Scripture, deity of Christ, the virgin birth, etc. The popular pastor tries to repaint these doctrines and compares faith to jumping on a trampoline, having fun vs. the orthodox version where the believer is left manning a brick wall on the verge of collapse. In both versions, he is looking at the result of removing beliefs and neglects to include the orthodox version where the wall is left intact and structurally sound.

   Your illustration makes it perfectly clear…if the wall is to remain a firm foundation…don’t mess with the critical bricks.

   Thanks for your thoughts.

   [A trampoline may be fun to play on, but you can't build on it. Rocks may be hard, but the house build on them versus the house built on sand is the one that will last in the storm. Thanks! dt]

4. Brian on September 7th, 2010 11:49 am

   Dr. Tackett,

   Thanks for another insightful and entertaining message. Your personal “uniqueness and diversity” shine through clearly through your writing. Having been through the Truth Project a couple times, I can vividly picture you experiencing your recent (perhaps ongoing) destruction/construction adventure! Sounds a bit safer than limb cutting/tree hugging at 30 feet.
   We wife and I left Florida (back to Wisconsin) on Labor Day. Not because we knew you were coming, though. We took 2 days to drive my daughter and her new (1992 Chevy Lumina) down to Pensacola Christian College. I would like to “Amen” your comments regarding unity and the need of the body for each of its members. My daughter really struggled her first year at college, in part due to feeling isolated, a little fish in a big sea. As she slowly developed a core group of friends, her attitude and outlook likewise improved. It seems to be an integral part of our old human nature to want to be independent, to do it ourselves. We seem to acknowledge the futility of this method at the point of salvation, yet the proclivity still tugs at us. How vital it is to acknowledge and act upon our need for each other as we journey through life with both its pleasant and unpleasant “surprises”. Looking forward to seeing the first CrossExamine in about a week. Brian from Wisconsin
   PS This oneliner I came across reminds me of the inheritance tax debacle you were discussing recently. “IRS: We’ve got what it takes to take what you’ve got.”

   [Brian, thanks for laboring together in the Truth Project and for following the blog. I'm sure you will be on your knees praying constantly for your daughter. It is so true that our old nature wants to isolate what God has designed to be integrated and involved. I enjoyed your one-liner! dt]

5. Natalie on September 8th, 2010 1:51 am

   Hello Del,

   I could not agree more with your statements about the power of the unity of the Body of Christ. How do we do it though? There is so much suspiscion, mistrust and, I believe, prejudice between the various Christian ‘camps.’ I am no theologian or even an astute Christian social commentator, but it seems to me that the ‘faith movement’ camp, and the ‘evalengical’ camp, and the ‘charismatic’ camp and the ‘pentecostal’ camp…like they’re all camps that cannot stomach one another and trade accusations like baseball cards… I say this because I’ve been exposed to/had friends in all of these camps, and have found people I could have unity with. But it does not seem like we can corporately bridge these gaps. Then there’s the whole political element where it seems Christians who consider themselves Democratic or Republican cannot even have a decent discussion. Personally, I see flaws in the stances of both parties-neither of them has the answer; only Jesus does. Why do we not pay more attention to this truth, and use the political system as a tool to accomplish goals for Christ, versus making it an extension of our Christianity? And let us not even get into the oldest divide in American culture – racial divides. Sure, the damage that slavery and racism brought to this county and it’s Christian witness from the beginning is being more acknowledged, but I still hear so many conservative Christians talk about how much of a ‘Christian Nation’ we originally were. We WERE such a nation, but we had deep faults from the very beginning, not the least of which was slavery and racism. I think one of the things that infuriates more liberal folks about conservative Christianity, and certainly black Christians, is the failure of many conservative Christians to fully acknowledge the damage and residual effects of slavery on our society from then until now…

   I guess I am just saying, the divisiveness seems to be very deep to me, and people seem unwilling to bridge the gaps, at least on a Church-wide scale. I am not saying there are not false teachings in the ‘camps’ I mentioned that need to be addressed as we make attempts to come together, but it seems that many Christians are eager to point out the flaws in other camps but not examine their own, or how they are contributing to divisiveness; nor are they willing to acknowledge any strengths in other camps, only in their own. I firmly believe that one is either part of the problem or one is part of the solution.

   I remember a friend in grad school; she was ‘Oneness Pentecostal’, which means she does not believe in the Trinity, but that God is one in one. Of course, as someone raised a Methodist who also was born again at 16 to just being a Christian, what my friend believed was not kosher. We would stay up late in the night arguing our positions till we wore each other out. It brought nothing but strife. However, when we looked at each person’s lives, we saw where the other sought to live their lives according to God’s word, how we loved Him, how we wanted to love him more. And we decided our differences were not worth fighting over, we focused on what we had in common. I consider her today one of my best friends in college.

   Del, I am praying that we will focus on Christ and Him crucified going forward as the Body of Christ. While we remain in our various camps and hold our positions, people are falling into deeper and deeper bondage, our institutions are crumbling around us, and people are going to hell. If we are arguing, or at the very least, not cooperating with each other but doing our own thing, how can we really help them, or avoid confusing them with our division?

   I did not mean to write so much, but I guess I feel like we need to put these issues on the table if we are to avoid weakpoints in our collective Christian wall and live the reality you referred to in your blog of strength through unity.

   [Natalie, I understand your frustration and your concerns. One of the toughest things our Institute students face after their semester, is going back into the "real world" and finding that other Christians don't "get it"...primarily not "getting" the beauty of real koinonia fellowship that they have just experienced. However, you nor I are the Savior and we don't have the capacity nor the power nor the ability to fix everything at once. Pray and ask God for one person who "gets" it and use that love and unity and fellowship to then pray for one more. We are in a battle, Natalie, and it will take all of us to walk with the perspective of the Larger Story, willing to become a "stepping stone" for those who come behind us. It doesn't all have to be solved in 30 minutes! Take heart, be encouraged...there is joy to be found in the struggle itself! dt]

6. Rachel on September 14th, 2010 9:48 pm

   I agree and pray that complacent Christians (including me!) will share in God’s heart for unity within the Body. I have a friend who asked me recently, “Do you truly believe that God can bring unity to Christianity? Because if you do, we need to be praying for that in faith.” She later pointed out how often we say we believe, but then either doubt in our hearts that it can really happen, or else look at our ever-diminishing list of “essentials” and claim that we are already unified. She has a point!

   So then my question would be, why would God pray for unity, if He didn’t intend to leave us a means of maintaining that unity? Interpreting the Sacred Scriptures as individuals certainly has not led to unity, and has instead actively worked to divide Christians. A glance through the local listing of churches can tell us that much. Does the fault then lie with the Bible? Certainly not! It is undoubtedly the inspired, inerrant Word of God. But at the same time, I do not believe Christ’s intent when He established His Church was to give us the Word so that we can individually use it as our sole rule of authority. This principle, by its very nature, leads to division — not unity. Can we still be unified by the Spirit of God? Of course. But can we then dismiss doctrine as unimportant? I think not. When reading the works of the apostles and then the Early Church Fathers, I can see that they weren’t thinking in terms of Sola Scriptura either. It is not consistent with the Old Testament foreshadow, nor is it ever mentioned in the New Testament. This was earth-shattering revelation for me several years ago, and will likely alter the course of my life. I felt the foundation had shifted beneath me but God has proven Himself faithful.
   Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
   The sojourning evangelical

   [Rachel, thank you for your thoughts. It seems that you are saying that we need others to interpret Scripture for us and that would then bring about unity. There is an interesting passage in 1 John 2:27 that I offer to you: "As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him." Jesus said that the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth, would come and guide us into all truth. I don't think that was intended for only the clerics. God has designed the church to have leaders, but this doesn't mean that we are not to read and study and understand the Scripture individually before Him. And, I don't think that this is what has caused disunity. Most of our disunity comes from our own sinful nature. I personally think the denominations are a testimony to the diversity of God's people and therefore their "unity" would be a greater testimony to the world. There isn't much to unity if we all are alike. What would it say to the community if every month the Baptists and the Presbyterians and the Charismatics, etc. etc. all got together for a huge pot luck and everyone could see "how they loved one another." That would be a wonder...and a blessing! Thanks for commenting! dt]

7. Jim on September 27th, 2010 1:54 pm

   Hi Del,

   I read what you wrote and agree with certain points you make. But I thought I would continue were Rachel left off as I don’t believe that the reply you gave her was good enough(No offence)

   You wrote that “Jesus said that the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth, would come and guide us into all truth”

   I agree wholeheartedly with this. But here lies the problem, and one that Rachel was hinting at: Who has the authority to say who is being led by the Holy Spirit and who is not, if the Holy Spirit is the one leading the reader of Scripture to the truth?

   Since the Holy Spirit is not the author of confusion and cannot give out two different messages, then there can only be one truth and not diametrically opposing doctrine. That being the case then not everyone reading Scripture can be right.
   This would further show that it is the person reading Scripture that is the authority, not Scripture itself; since the Holy Spirit cannot give out contradicting messages. So how does one arrive at false teachings by going by the Bible alone? Obviously it cannot be the Holy Spirit. So that leaves us with only one choice i.e. the person reading Scripture, which proves that most [if not all] of the denominations are false. They have snippets of the truth, but not the whole truth which the Holy Spirit would lead the Church into.

   As to unity, did the Apostles deliver to the Churches diametrically opposing doctrine? By this I mean, did the Church of Corinth, Rome, Jerusalem, Ephesus etc receive doctrines from the Apostles that were opposing to those of other Churches?

   Or did they believe in “One Lord, one faith, one baptism”? I cannot for the love of me, come to belief that the Apostles would preach a false gospel to one city Church and the true gospel message to another. Or one Apostle contradicting another.

   The message was one, and that is what unified them. Not meeting up with eachother and having a few laughs and some sandwiches. I am sorry but I don’t believe that you know the true meaning of the passage from John 17:20-21. [No offence]

   The unity of those that heard the Apostles which the Holy Spirit would give them [Until the end of time] is what would show the world that God sent Jesus. I am sorry, but I do not see this in the Protestant community any more. In fact I have come to the conclusion that they never had it. One need only look to Luther’s own lifetime to see the chaos that going by the Bible alone for doctrine caused; with the amount of schisms that appeared within the body of Christ.

   I have another problem with this Bible alone belief and that is: If truth be told, You believe that the Bible teaches your brand of Christianity. I would find it strange if you didn’t.
   The reason you are with the community/denomination you find yourself with, is because you believe it to be the true Church of Christ.
   But here lies the problem [and I ran into this brick wall]

   If “Y” = your brand of Christian orthodoxy, ….

   And if you say that the Bible objectively teaches “Y”… [and you do]

   And if the Bible does indeed objectively teach “Y” ….

   Then we must have numerous examples of ancient “orthodox Christians” saying that the Bible teaches “Y” too.

   But the fact is we don’t. You cannot show one early Christian who arrived at the truth as you have it from going by the Bible alone. Not one!

   What does that tell us? Either that the gates of hell prevailed against Christ’s Church or that going by the Bible alone for doctrine is false. I do not believe that we can have it both ways.

   Here is another problem for me and that is the truth of the early Church. John Calvin taught that the Catholic Mass was an “abominaton unknown to the purer Church”(Institutes, IV, 18:9). Yet St Augustine believed the Mass was “a propitiatory sacrifice bringing about remission of sins and the conferring of supernatural gifts” [De cura pro mortuis fier] And so did the all the fathers.

   How can Augustine arrive at this if he went by the Bible alone for doctrine and yet John Calvin and you cannot?

   How can John Calvin believe the Mass an abomination only for Augustine to believe that the Mass brought about the remission of sins if they supposedly went by the Bible alone? It makes no sense whatsoever.

   And as Rachel wrote “I do not believe Christ’s intent when He established His Church was to give us the Word so that we can individually use it as our sole rule of authority. This principle, by its very nature, leads to division — not unity” And I firmly believe that the reformers were to blame for the disunity we see because as Rachel noted, this principle, by its very nature leads to disunity. And the only way we are ever going to be united is if we leave the reformers, their doctrines and our pride a the door.

   But, as long as men believe that the Bible is their sole rule of authority [the doctrine of the reformers] then there will never be unity. I now know this to be true and I know that you are a clever man also, and that you believe in Christ Jesus. So to be honest, it is only a matter of time before the Holy Spirit will eventually lead you to the same conclusion.

   “One Lord, one faith, one baptism” [believed for 2000yrs]

   [Thanks for responding, Jim. Can we summarize? It seems you are saying that the Scripture isn't, or can't be, the final authority, nor can the the Holy Spirit. So the only way to have real unity is to be united under one authority on earth who in essence is the sole interpreter of the Scripture. The rest of the "church" then relies upon him to tell us what the Scripture really says to be true. We all then follow his interpretation and therefore we get true unity. Is that a proper summation of your position? dt]

8. Jim on September 28th, 2010 2:26 pm

   Hi Del,
   Thanks for taking the time to reply to my comments, it is appreciated.
   “Is that a proper summation of your position?”
   No. I would like to add this before I go any further Del: We are discussing whether Scripture is the only infallible authority or not, nothing else. Anything else would indicate side tracking and in my opinion dishonesty [I am not saying that, in this case, you were being delibarately dishonest] Thanks.
   My position is that Scripture is the inerrant word of God but not the only infallible authority; since for the love of me, I cannot find this doctrine anywhere within the inerrant word of God. [I will deal with the comments about the Holy Spirit etc later]
   Let me say that I know well the argument from 2 Timothy 3:16. But the more I look at this, the more it shows me that it doesn’t say that Scripture is the only infallible authority. It is “profitable” but not the only infallible authority. And I have read and heard every argument for Scripture being the only infallible authority [and I can assure you that I have] But every verse given for Scripture being the only infallible authority falls flat on its face. Simply put Del, if we are to believe that the Bible is the only infallible authority then we should find this doctrine being taught within the Bible. But the fact that we don’t proves that it is a false doctrine.
   If we are to go by the Bible alone for doctrine and we cannot find that doctrine being taught anywhere in the Bible then why on earth should we believe it? It is actually self refuting.
   The argument of whether or not I am claiming that Holy Spirit is not the only infallible authority is neither here nor there. You first need to prove that the Bible is the only infallible authority before you can make such assumptions. You based this assumption on your belief that the Bible is the only infallible authority. But you first need to prove that.
   “So the only way to have real unity is to be united under one authority on earth who in essence is the sole interpreter of the Scripture. The rest of the “church” then relies upon him to tell us what the Scripture really says to be true. We all then follow his interpretation and therefore we get true unity.”
   And everyone interpreting Scripture because they believe the Bible is the only infallible authority has done what? Unified the Body of Christ?
   This belief has being around for 500yrs and what has this done towards unifying the Body of Christ? Brought believers of different denominations together or caused more schisms than you could shake a stick at? You know the answer to this Del.
   Del, as I said at the start, this discussion is not about anything else other than the Bible being the only infallible authority. It is not about anyone or anything else other than that. And I would be obliged if you would stick to that.
   Thanks
   Jim

   [Jim, I am swamped with filming right now, but wanted to post your comments for others to see. dt]
   [Jim...haven't forgotten! Need to get to the weekend to find some time. Thanks for being patient! dt]

9. Brian on September 28th, 2010 4:16 pm

   Del,

   Thank you for your insight. I had the wonderful opportunity of facilitating the Truth Project with a group of soldiers in Iraq. It was excellent, not only for the message, but also for the way that God pulled this group together. We all laughed, cried, were frustrated, were happy etc. As my dad says, God is king everywhere, not only in the USA but in Iraq too. Your Godly messages built us up. Thank you!

   [Thanks, Brian for co-laboring in the Truth Project...and thanks for your service! I am delighted to hear these stories because of my heart for the military. God was obviously gracious to pour out His blessing upon you all. dt]

10. Mary on September 28th, 2010 5:50 pm

    Del,
    I would like to know your thoughts regarding the pastor Mark Blitz in eastern Washington who is teaching that Christians need to observe all the Festivals, etc.

    We have a real problem with this from a family member. It seems to us they are going back to the Old Testament and legalism..

    Mary Ann Thurlow
    Whitehouse, TX

    [Mary, thanks for writing. I'm not familiar with this and will try to do some research on what is being taught before I respond. dt]

11. Peter on September 28th, 2010 6:27 pm

    Where in FL? I am a bit simple here. Everyone else said enough.

    Blessings

    Peter
    [Filming in Fort Lauderdale. dt]

12. Eric on September 28th, 2010 9:13 pm

    Hi Del,
    I thank God for you and what He is allowing you to do through your ministry. I went through the Truth Project last year with my bright and beautiful new bride of one month and today we find ourselves proud parents of our now four month old baby girl, Madelynn. Thank God for allowing you to strengthen our foundation in Christ! You are a blessing for many!

    And now I feel I need to help Jim and Rachel understand something. First off, I don’t know either of you but love you dearly and pray for you. Secondly, I do not assume to know what is in your hearts, only God knows that. But your words are teetering towards blasphemy of Biblical Christianity. I know for me, my mind gets into a worldly rut and drowns out the guidance the Holy Spirit is pointing me towards. I am not saying we shouldn’t be like the Bereans, on the contrary! However, the Bereans studied Scripture to determine the Truth and NOT the works of men. When the world drives you to question the Word, revert back to the Word and find out what it says about the world. Our King will not fail you! I think a thorough study in hermeneutics (Herman Who? By Todd Friel) would benefit you greatly.

    2 Peter 3:18 but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.

    [Eric...congratulations on being a dad! There's nothing like it! dt]

13. DANIEL on September 28th, 2010 11:14 pm

    Any church/christian that reads the Bible and is a new creature, By default will be led by the Holy Spirit.
    Some Church/Christian will attained a higher percentage in discerning any passage of scripture so there is a Church/Christian that is up there in any passage of scripture and God is going to use that Church/Christian to help others to “see” what the text says
    Jesus called Paul (Saul) He can called anyone since He knows who is up there
    Jer 9:23-24 I know Him
    and I keep His Word , the Father loves me and they both abide with me (Jn 14:23

14. Carolyn on September 29th, 2010 5:59 am

    Del,
    Your analogy is so timely for us. Last evening I showed the intro and a bit of the first lesson of True U to the group of college women who meet in our home once a week for dinner and Bible study. Our discussions lately have often included how unprepared they feel when accosted for their faith by other students or the professors in the classrooms. They loved the True U teaser they viewed last night and are eager to add this to our Bible study material. Thanks to Focus on the Family for providing such quality material to help the youth of today in their effort to be the Body and stay unified, but still go out and be salt and light!
    As a young parent (many years ago!) our family enjoyed the help of Focus in raising godly kids as we utilized all of the Oddesey materials along with Dr. Dobson’s parenting books. Never did I dream that I would still be coming to Focus for “help” after my own kids were grown. God bless your ministry!
    Carolyn T.
    [Thanks, Carolyn. I pray True U will be a blessing for you. I am working on a follow-up to the Truth Project (The Truth Encounter) that hopefully will help in that preparation. dt]

15. Jim on September 29th, 2010 8:46 am

    (Response to Eric)

    That is all fine and dandy Eric. But the fact that you failed to show me where Scripture says that Scripture is the only infallible authority.

    Am I supposed to ignore everything and just take your word for it?
    I can assure you Eric studying hermeneutics till your blue in the face will not show Scripture saying that Scripture is the only infallible authority.

    I could be wrong. And if that is the case, then please show me where Scripture makes this claim that you believe it does.

16. Rachel on September 29th, 2010 11:14 pm

    Del,
    Thank you for your thought-filled response and for sharing 1 Jn 2:27 with me. I agree that the Holy Spirit will lead us to all truth, whether we are clerical or not. The means by which He leads us to all truth would be the question, then. Does He lead by Scripture and our individual interpretations through the guidance of the Spirit, OR by Scripture along with Tradition and a teaching authority, also through the guidance of the Spirit?

    You asked Jim if he believed it possible that the Bible and the Holy Spirit could be the final authority or not. I do not mean to answer for Jim, but I personally believe it is very possible for Christ to have established His Church with only the Bible and the Holy Spirit to lead us. He certainly could have done that! But did He? He could have written and compiled the books of the Bible and sent it leather-bound to us by His Spirit, without using humans to do the job…but did He? For reasons I don’t understand, He chose to give us the infallible Scriptures through fallible men who were led by the Holy Spirit. You and I would agree on that. Is it so outlandish, then, that He would choose to preserve the Church through fallible men, by the leading of the Holy Spirit? Again, I do not pretend to understand why the Creator uses the created to transmit infallible truth. I would not have handled matters the same way if I were God. But we would agree that He did in fact use men not only to write the infallible books of the Bible, but also to decide infallibly which books belonged in the cannon of Scripture.

    If we believe we only have the Holy Spirit, the Bible, and our own interpretations of it to guide us to all truth, this line of reasoning would lead us to an uncomfortable conclusion: it would be perfectly acceptable for each of us, as individuals, to examine the books for ourselves and with the Spirit as our guide, decide which books belong in the Bible and which do not.

    Imagine: “Does James not fit with your Spirit-led theological structure? No worries…Just throw it out! Is Revelation just too weird to accept? Must not be from God! You can by-pass that one too, then.”

    Sound blasphemous? It should! The Holy Spirit infallibly led a council of fallible men to select the books that should and should not be included in the Bible. We do not have the luxury of deciding as individuals. Why then do we believe it is acceptable to create our own individual brands of Christianity?

    Two comments I’d like to make in response to something you said: I agree that it is good for us to read and study God’s Word before Him, and to come to understand it more. The Bible is such a gift! But how we read the Bible is key. Just as we have God-given guidance on which books are infallible, so also we can have God-given guidance on how to interpret those books. This does not mean we should stop thinking or studying! It simply means we now have certain life-giving perimeters to keep us on track.

    You also said that God designed the Church to have leaders. Let me ask you this: What exactly is the role of those leaders? From your standpoint they have no authority. Is that correct? So why have leaders? Doesn’t allowing ourselves to be influenced by the teaching of others only serve to distract us from our Spirit-led study of Scripture?

    Ok, one more quick comment then I’ll stop! You said (roughly quoted) that the various denominations are a testimony of the diversity of God’s people, so we have more opportunity to be a witness to unity when we love each other. I understand what you’re saying, and to an extent I agree. However, it is important to note the difference between diverse cultures (styles of music, etc), which is a testimony, and opposing viewpoints all being touted as “The Truth,” which is not a testimony. I believe in absolute truth. While all denominations may have a snippet of truth, we cannot ignore the conflicting beliefs between (and within) the many denominations. If we are indeed one Body, we should be working in unity to share the one Truth.

    I think of Jesus’ prayer just before he was arrested. He prayed for unity among His people. I do not believe He would have prayed for unity if He did not have a plan for maintaining that unity.

    May God bless you…
    [Thanks, Rachel, for the grace by which you have responded. I will respond myself soon. Blessings! dt]
    [Rachel...I haven't forgotten. I need to get to the weekend to get the time to do so. Thanks! dt]

17. Rachel on September 29th, 2010 11:23 pm

    (In response to Eric)

    Thank you for your concern and especially your prayers. I appreciate both greatly.

    Please understand, I’m still open to being convinced that the Catholic church is not the Church established by Christ, but if so I’d have to be convinced to the degree I could walk away with intellectual honesty and integrity. I’m not interested in smoothing things over on the surface just so I can remain in the comfortable familiarity of Protestantism. If sola scriptura is true, it will stand the test. I do not believe God feels threatened by my questions.

    May we all be led by God to the fullness of Truth.

18. Eric on September 30th, 2010 12:38 pm

    (in response to Jim)
    Jim, I urge you to pray and read John 1:1-18. It is not I who has failed you my friend. If it were me in your shoes, I would begin to examine my heart and ask myself what is hindering me from trusting and believing the Word? For if you doubt even one part of the Book, you have a problem, for it is seamless. Beginning to end, proclaiming the Truth and righteousness of Almighty God through His saving grace in Christ Jesus.

    I pray that this helps to clear things up for you. If you still doubt, I plead with you to pray for God to allow His Holy Spirit to lift the scales and allow you to see Truth in His Word.

    Proverbs 3:5-6 Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge Him, and He shall direct your paths.

19. Jim on September 30th, 2010 3:32 pm

    (In response to Rachel)

    I agree, If sola scriptura is true, it will stand the test.

    And I would like to thank Del for allowing this discussion to take place.

20. Karen on October 1st, 2010 9:22 am

    Hi Del,
    Thank you so much for sharing the ordinary tasks, of the everyday life, here in the valley…that allows us all to see the extraordinary hand of Christ! I have read these blogs for a while now, but never commented before. I must admit, it was not just your expert recounting of the importance of unity (eloquently explained), but also the small tidbit on the churches uniting to take Christ’s direction; literally and realistically. I am a single(divorced) mom with a severly, multi-handicapped son. I also am somewhat physically limited, with ongoing spine problems. I have been (for over 15yrs.) attempting to enlighten churches, in our area, of the importance of being involved in the lives of these blessed individuals. Most (children and adults) are left entirely in the care of each state and county in which they live. The conditions are so deplorable, in some-not all; it breaks my heart to see what we are willing to overlook and forget, when a situation does not touch us personally. The house you have purchased for the young college girls, is an awesome gesture…I know it will be blessed, as those who reside there will be also. I do not have the financial means (or, even the proper education) to undergo such a huge venture myself,or I would…but, I pray (daily) that the church will step up and take a vital, loving and merciful approach to the handicapped. My son is non-verbal, but, he worships the Lord…and it is amazing to see and watch! When I started playing Christian worship and music dvd’s for him, the difference in his life was unmistakable…it was the glory of God, identifying with His spirit already in place within my son, ministering and uplifting his very soul. I believe we are responsible for the care of these “little ones”…physically and spiritually. The states (government) are not concerned for much else other than the basic requirements being met. They allow trips to strip clubs, bars, casiono’s…and sexual activity…as their human right. Even if they are unable to understand the consquences of these actions. In addition, the living conditions, the staffing available, and general care offered…is suspect; to say the least. Some agencies do sincerely care and make a heartfelt attempt to offer good services. However, the majority are terribly lacking and definitely questionable.
    I apologize for the long winded “soap box”!! I am just so encouraged to hear that there are churches making an attempt to overcome some basic differences (between specific religions), and join together for the greater good of society…Praise the Father!! I hope to be able to see you at one of the training seminars (if any come close to this area!). Until then, Bless you (and all of your hard working staff; not to mention, your family) and thank you, for sharing the insight God showers upon you, with the rest of us.
    In His Love,
    Karen

    [Thank YOU, Karen...for your diligent care and love for your child. I pray your church will (if they have not) become a great help to you. This is one of the great purposes of the local church and its members. I, too, am excited every time I hear stories of God's people coming together--whether that is in fellowship or service. In fact, I just finished filming a story about that for Cross Examine on several churches in South Florida coming together to deal biblically with the issue of homelessness. Blessings to you, Karen! dt]

21. Craig on October 2nd, 2010 10:10 am

    Del, thank you for your insightful, directed, relevant analogies and for maintaining a humble and contrite spirit…may the Lord continue to use you mightily in helping many discover the truth.

    [Thanks, Craig. It is all for His glory. dt]

22. Jim on October 2nd, 2010 2:46 pm

    (In response to Eric)

    Eric, my friend, I never said it was you who failed me. I do trust the Word of God and that is why I am asking the questions that I am. I cannot for the love of me find the teaching that the Bible is the only infallible authority from the Bible. My problem is not with the Bible or you, but the fact that this teaching has only been around for 500yrs and is nowhere found in the Bible.

    I don’t doubt the Bible, not even one part of it. I think there is a misunderstanding because I believe that you think I doubt the Word of God. I can assure you that I do not doubt it. If anything, I doubt the belief that the Bible is the only infallible authority. Why? Because nowhere in the Bible does it say that it is. Yet we are told that all doctrines are found in the Bible. So how can we not find the reformers doctrine of Sola Scriptura? The only logical conclusion is that it is not Biblical.

23. Del on October 10th, 2010 7:18 pm

    This is for both Jim and Rachel. I am so happy that we have been able to dialogue a little on this (although this is a horrible forum to really do that well ). Here are some final thoughts for you both. First of all, it is a misunderstanding to think that I believe “sola scriptura” means that I believe there is no other authority. God has designed many social institutions that carry divine authority: the home, the state, the church, labor. The question is, where do we go for the final answer on what is Truth? Some say it is to a human authority. I believe it is to the Word of God. Jesus said that He was the Truth and that God’s Word was Truth. When tempted by Satan, Jesus called upon the Word. John says that Jesus was the Word in flesh. In the book of Revelation we are told that the rider on the white horse (Jesus) has a name and it is the Word of God. God says He holds His Word above His own name. He speaks His Word and the universe comes into being. Jesus said that if we abide in His Word then we would truly be His disciples and we would know the Truth. It is hard to read the Scripture and not come to the conclusion that the final authority on Truth has to be His Word. Now, I know you (Jim) have been trying to pin me down to some verse that says “Scripture is the only infallible authority” even going as far as saying that I was somehow being dishonest if I didn’t limit my answer to that particular question. I’m sorry you feel that way. But there are many, many truths that we understand from Scripture having looked at ALL of Scripture to come to that understanding. Is there one verse that details the Trinity? How would we respond to someone who asked if there might not be a fourth person in the Trinity? Could we find a verse that says there are ONLY three persons in the Trinity? No. But we believe in the Triune nature of God. Why? Because the Scripture, when understood in the whole, clearly expresses that Truth. I believe we find the same here when discussing the question of where do we go for our final authority. That is what was meant by “sola scriptura”. We have been given the special revelation of God so that we might be able to test the declarations of man. How do we know whether or not Islam is true? Mormonism claims it is the one true church. How do we know if it is or isn’t? How are we to know if the king is right or wrong? How are we to know if the boss is asking us to do something that is good or evil? Paul stated in Galatians that even if an angel came and preached something different or even if he or another apostle came and preached something different that they were to be accursed. How do we know it is “different”? I believe our only infallible source is the Word of God. Are there other “sources”? Sure. We are to seek godly counsel. But men can err and it appears that even angels can be deceivers. Satan can appear as an angel of light. We test it all against Scripture. It is the final authority. Jim, even you are implying that the Scripture is the final authority when you were saying that if the Scripture didn’t say it was the “only infallible authority” then it must not be true. Isn’t that making the Scripture the final authority? I think you are right in that position, but wrong in making the criteria that it must be found in a single passage rather than the preponderance of the whole. In fact, you gave testimony that you believed in the infallibility and inerrancy of Scripture. Is that found in a single verse? I don’t think so.
    The Scripture is clear that men are fallible. Even angels who declare something different are to be rejected. The ONLY things that are infallible are God Himself and His Word.
    I write this to you both with great affection. Thank you for a civil dialogue. May the Lord bless us all as we continue our walk with Him. dt

24. Kathy Berry on November 3rd, 2010 6:04 am

    Hi Del,

    I am seeking godly counsel. In the last 2 weeks I have had a dialogue with an elderly gentleman that has been assigned a leadership role in our church over myself and a small group. In our dialogue, he has told me that he believes that Jesus in the Son of God, but not the Messiah, that the Messiah is yet to come. Mind you I am not a Bible Scholar, I do study the Word and have probably what others would say a “childlike faith”. But it is disconcerting to me that a person is leading our group that does not believe Jesus is the Messiah. I asked him, why he believed this and on what foundation. He said that in the Old Testament that there are at least 6 other Christs, that Jesus does not fit the description of the Messiah and in Isaiah at least 2. If you would please direct to me to resources that I can research on this issue, and scriptures for me to research. I said to this gentleman, then you agree with the Jewish faith that Messiah is yet to come, and he said yes. So wouldn’t this make him not a Christian? Please excuse my naive questions. God Bless you.

    [Kathy...I would say you have every right to me concerned that a leader in your church denies that Jesus is the Christ. Here's a possible way to approach him. "If you believe that Jesus is God, then that belief has to come from the New Testament. I assume, then, you believe the New Testament is either God's Word or at least can be trusted to be true. If so, how do you deal with the fact that it pairs "Jesus" with "Christ" which is equivalent to the Hebrew word Messiah, over 200 times? This usage is giving Jesus the title: Jesus the Messiah. The word Christ is used in the New Testament nearly 500 times, all referring to Jesus. There are so many passages that confirm this, but one of the clearest is in John 4:25-26. A woman speaks to Jesus and says: “I know that Messiah” (called Christ) “is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us.” Then Jesus declared, “I, the one speaking to you—I am he.”
    Now, if he believes that Jesus is God, then if God says that He is the Messiah, then He must be the Messiah.
    Pray diligently for this man, that the Spirit of God will open his eyes to this truth. We bear the name "Christian" because we believe that He is the "annointed One", the Messiah, the Christ. dt]

25. Kathy Berry on November 4th, 2010 6:13 am

    Hi Del,

    Thank you for your response and advice on how to approach the gentleman in my above note. Another woman and I are the only two in this small group that he has discussed his beliefs with, we will pray for him. We are also praying for guidance as to whether we discuss with our Pastor in a confidential setting. The reason being is that the group we belong to has been charged with ministering to people in a crisis based on the love of Jesus, we are to be Christian care-givers. We do feel that the person leading us in this ministry should have a strong faith themselves, and is a Christian to be an effective leader for the group.
    I have also just finished the Truth Project with a small group ( this is my second time, first time as the leader), the study has only deepened my desire to study the Word and has helped me to look at my life and my beliefs in light of the Truth like never before. I am not sure that I would be questioning this leader so much prior to doing the Truth Project. Thank you and I look forward to the Truth Encounter. Cross Examine is great also. God Bless you. Kathy
    [Thanks, Kathy. The Lord has certainly blessed the Truth Project way beyond our imagination. SDG! dt]

26. Kathy on December 7th, 2010 8:36 am

    Hi Del,

    I am the one that asked you the question in the last 2 above posts concerning the concern I had that a man in a leadership role in our church that doesn’t believe the Truth that Jesus Christ is the Messiah.
    I will try to make this as concise as possible, but I am even more troubled now than a month ago about the leadership of our group. Myself and another person did meet with our pastor and discussed our feelings about the man being in a leadership role, who proclaims to us that Jesus is not the Messiah. Bottom line is the pastor is to discuss the man’s beliefs with him–but our pastor told us that if he tells him that he believes Jesus is the Son of God, died for our sins, that he would be satisfied. Last night, we had our usual group meeting with the man and he actually brought up the subject of Jesus as the Messiah to the whole group, and spent an hour trying to convince us why he didn’t believe that Jesus was the Messiah. Yes he believed that he was God’s Son, yes he died for our sins, yes he believes in the Trinity, yes he considers himself a Christian, but the Messiah is a Jewish concept,not a Christian concept. I had already presented to him the arguments that you outlined in your above note, (and gave him the link to R.C. Sproul’s lecture on Jesus, the Messiah)but it was clear to me that he doesn’t believe that the Bible is infallible, and questions the validity of some scripture. How can you pick and choose which scripture is accurate and which is not? If he believes that Jesus is the Son of God, which is spelled out to us in scripture and then turn around and not believe God’s Word that Jesus in the Messiah? You can’t. This presents a huge “cocoon” for me. I trained for 4 months to be a Stephen Minister, but I can’t reconcile that this man should be our leader in this Christ Centered Ministry. If our pastor keeps him in this position, then I have to make a decision as to even stay in this church. I don’t feel equipped to argue with this man. If only we had someone like you sitting there oh, what a blessing that would be! I know God will answer my prayers, but will I hear him? Please pray for me and everyone involved. Any additional advice would be greatly appreciated. You are so kind to answer my questions. God Bless you and your family. Kathy

    [Sorry to take so long, but I wanted to answer you in a separate blog. See the current post. I pray the Lord will give you all great wisdom in how you handle this situation. Merry Christmas! dt]

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